Friday, November 5, 2010

'So if I own Mein Kampf I'm a supporter of Hitler?'

I got an interesting comment from a post made about a month ago called "People of the Book."  It was about an article written by Ted Widmer which explored the forgotten and/or ignored presence of Islam during the creation and infancy of our nation.  It's a fascinating article with a lot of interesting information that I didn't know beforehand, such as:

  • Founding Fathers John Adams and Thomas Jefferson both owned their own copies of the Quran.
  • The earliest documented instance of a copy of the Quran showing up in North America was 1683, almost a century before the Declaration of Independence (and there may have been even earlier instances, but this is the first documented account).
  • The Massachusetts Constitution, written at around the same time as another significant Constitution (the drafting of which was assisted by John Adams), has this great bit in it: “the most ample of liberty of conscience” for “Deists, Mahometans, Jews and Christians.”

  • Muslims and Catholics were often held in the same "extremely foreign" religion category.
  • Thomas Jefferson tried to learn Arabic, and his Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom was meant to protect "the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination."
  • Widmer:  "Jefferson and Adams led many of our early negotiations with the Islamic powers as the United States lurched into existence. A favorable treaty was signed with Morocco, simply because the Moroccans considered the Americans ahl-al-kitab, or 'people of the book,' similar to Muslims, who likewise eschewed the idolatry of Europe’s ornate state religions. When Adams was president, a treaty with Tripoli (Libya) insisted that the United States was 'not in any sense founded upon the Christian religion' and therefore has 'no character of enmity against the laws, religion and tranquility of Mussulmen.'
  • Islam may have been a religious belief of up to 1 in every 5 African American slaves before emancipation.
  • Washington in a letter to the people of Rhode Island:  "May the children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, and there shall be none to make him afraid."
Any way you cut it, Widmer's article shines a light on a little-explored area of American history.

So I was kind of surprised to get a comment on the post this morning from my old friend Steve.  "So if I own Mein kampf I'm a supporter of Hitler?"  My first response was to just write a comment back on the post.  But as I started to type, I had a hard time narrowing my responses down to just one argument.

Ergo, this post.  Feel free to apply one, any or all answers back to your comment, Steve.
  • So I guess you didn't read the article, which was about much more than the quote I originally referenced.
  • In a Fox News 24-hour spin cycle, you might be.  Look at Van Jones, for instance.  Or Shirley Sherrod.  You owning Mein Kampf could be spun that way.  That's not the truth, I'd imagine.  There's probably a lot more to it, as there was with Jefferson and Adams each owning their own copies.  But if you want to boil it down to a right-wing talking point without exploring the issue at all, then sure.  Heil Steve.
  • Interesting how you compare ownership of the Quran to ownership of Mein Kampf.  And by 'interesting,' I mean 'disturbingly telling.'  Why not use another religious tome to make a comparison, like the Bible, the Torah, the Bhagavad Gita, the I-Ching, the Book of Mormon, Hubbard's "Dianetics," or the Zohar?  What makes you think that comparing the holy scripture of an established and widespread religion to an autobiography written by a genocidal fuckhead was accurate in any way?  Imagine I'm cooking dinner for Kristen and I tell you "Kristen loves tomatoes.  I bet she'd really like marinara sauce on her pasta."  And you reply by saying "So if I own Mein Kampf I'm a supporter of Hitler?"  That wouldn't exactly be an appropriate comparison, would it?  Nor is comparing the Quran to Mein Kampf.
  • Do you actually own a copy of Mein Kampf?
  • No, you're not a supporter of Hitler (that I know of).  And by posting an article about the history of Muslims in Colonial America, I'm not a Jihadist.  Or a historian.
  • Did you know before reading my post that Adams and Jefferson personally owned copies of the Quran?  Do you think the majority of the Evangelical Right (or the US population in general) does?
  • Your comment almost comes off as threatened by the fact that two of our country's founders owned Qurans.  Does this threaten you?
Eagerly awaiting your reply, Steve.  You should visit my blog more than once a month anyway...

12 comments:

  1. PS. Steve -- Morrison's Batman run. Do you love it yet?

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  2. I own a copy of the Constitution, a copy of Mein Kampf, a copy of the Koran, even a few Bibles.

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  3. Oh, and weirdest of all, I have a copy of The Book of Mormon.

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  4. One time I was talking with a girl about religion and I jokingly refered to the Book of Mormon as 'Bible 2: Electric Boogaloo.' Turned out she was both LDS and unable to take a joke.

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  5. Hey Steve,

    I've noticed you've tried to comment a couple of times on here but nothing's showing up on the actual comments page. It's not me denying them, they may just be too big. You might try to break them down into two or three posts, maybe.

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  6. Hey Judd, how’s it going?

    First off, I wasn’t trying to compare Mein Kampf to the Quran; it’s just one book I own that if someone was looking through them, they might say why the fuck would own this?

    I did own a copy of the Quran, loaned to my uncle I think and never got it back, I also own or have owned the book of Mormon, several Buddhist books, some witchcraft books and devil worship books. I don’t own any Beck or O’Reily books however but will most likely buy the new Jon Stewart earth book.

    I don’t think you can take any opinions from a variety filled library, other than the person who owned it liked to read and learn about others. Now if ones library is filled with nothing but one sided books then that may well give some insight about said person.

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  7. Now to your specific gripes

    1. Nope didn’t read the article, didn’t have time, those of us with kids and jobs sometimes have other more pressing things to do.
    2. Its’ not just Fox
    3. Opened with this at the top of post, but to go on more, I read President Clintons book, I’ve read the Hubbard book, and I’ve read and continue to read many books about individuals from all walks of life, from all time periods. So again I WAS NOT COMPARING THE TWO.
    4. Yep own an old paper back, along with many other books about Hitler
    5. I’m not a supporter of anyone or any group that wants the government to be in control of every aspect of life.
    6. Yep did know this, on Founders Friday it was brought up, they tend to bring up a lot of stuff on that show that I had forgotten or didn’t know. You should check it out.
    7. I really don’t think anything found in some 200 year old estate could make me feel threatened.

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  8. Used to visit all the time then there was nothing on it for months at time so I only check it every once in a while.

    So here is your response, go ahead rip a tax payer to shreds.

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  9. Success!

    "I don’t think you can take any opinions from a variety filled library, other than the person who owned it liked to read and learn about others."

    I agree. Doing so gives you a skewed, one-sided view of the issue at hand. Then again, so does reading one selected quote out of an article and assuming that, since the quote referred to Adams owning a copy of the Quran, the article must therefore be about nothing but how Adams was a Muslim sympathizer because he owned a copy of the Quran. That's just the tip of the iceberg. I used the bit about Adams owning a copy of the Quran because it was a neat little factoid, and I hoped it would spark the interest of readers and make them read the full article.

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  10. 1. But you have time to go back and forth with me about it on the interwebz? I smell BS.
    2. Yeah, maybe. But It's mostly Fox.
    3. I get what you're saying. But is the Quran that shocking though?
    4. It's kind of funny, right after I posted this an old friend left me a comment on facebook saying that this discussion reminded him he still has my copy of the Necronomicon.
    5. Filthy anarchist.
    6. Cool. What about the rest of the info from the article? It was all new to me. And sorry, but there's no way in hell I'll watch Glenn Beck for educational purposes. That makes about as much sense as treating fevers with blood-letting.
    7. How about the idea that Islam wasn't the non-entity that the Religious Right wishes it was during the establishment of the country?

    Touche' about the lack of content remark. I'm working on it.

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  11. And what about Morrison's Batman?!

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  12. SORRY REPOSTING AGAIN
    http://2012renaissance.blogspot.com/

    FUCK THE HIDDEN HAND.

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